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Forum Locked2.4 Definitions - Accidents

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jhall1213 View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Topic: 2.4 Definitions - Accidents
    Posted: May/10/2016 at 1:06pm
2.4 Definitions - Accidents
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seymourstern View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/12/2016 at 3:44pm

2.4.4 unstabilized situation

 

Example 9.) A motor vehicle in-transport brakes, attempting to avoid a pedestrian crossing the roadway. The motor vehicle in-transport strikes the pedestrian. At the same time (i.e., when the first vehicle started to brake and before it came to rest), a second motor vehicle in-transport swerves to avoid a collision with the braking vehicle, striking a utility pole. The two motor vehicles in-transport do not strike each other, but these events are all within one unstabilized situation.

 

Under 2.4.4, unstabilized situation, example 9.) describes a situation where two vehicles have no mutual contact yet are part of one unstabilized situation.  However, no other crash component (another traffic unit) is not given the same consideration.  If we replace a bicyclist with the second motor vehicle described in “Example 9.)” with the same outcome resulting, the bicyclist is normally not considered part of the crash.

 

This is not described in D16.  I have mixed feelings about expanding this to other types of traffic units, however the only other conclusion is to eliminate the described example and therefore require some contact between traffic units in a crash.

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jvecchi View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/12/2016 at 5:42pm
What you're describing--potentially replacing the vehicle with a bicyclist, who then strikes a utility pole-- is a situation where the secondary collision is not a motor vehicle accident, because no motor vehicle in transport is involved.  Part of this goes back to a solid definition of the term accident/crash.  In 2.4.12 A motor vehicle accident is an accident that involves a motor vehicle in transport... and results in injury and / or damage.
When you say, no other traffic unit is given the same consideration, that's only true if that other traffic unit is not a motor vehicle in transport.
There are many types of crashes described in this standard that do not involve collisions. So, a collision is not a necessity, only a motor vehicle in transport.  If a bicycle strikes a legally parked motor vehicle, you're in the same boat: Its a non-traffic accident/crash.
I have noted several comments which indicate that there is some issue with understanding of the unstabilized situation, which is essentially nothing more than loss of control.  I'd certainly welcome a more user-friendly definition of unstabilized situation if anyone has one.
Joan vecchi,
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jmcdonough View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul/21/2016 at 5:34pm
The definition of 2.4.12 Motor Vehicle Accident does not specifically say that it must involve a “contact” motor vehicle in-transport.  Suggest adding the word "contact" to the definition to say say “(1) involves a contact motor vehicle in-transport,..." 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul/21/2016 at 5:52pm
Questions are often raised about whether or not a fatality should be counted as part of a motor vehicle traffic accident that involves an immersion harmful event (drowning). I propose that additional clarification be added under 2.4.4 unstabilized situation exclusion example #3 to state something to the effect of "an occupant of a vehicle that is sinking vehicle or that enter into swift moving water is not in ‘a position of safety’. In these occurrences the unstabilized situation has not ended, and any damage or injury is still part of the same unstabilized situation”.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul/24/2016 at 11:00pm
I am interested to hear responses to this suggestion. I will include this in the discussion items for the meeting at the Forum, as well as the follow-up conference call.
Joan vecchi,
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug/08/2016 at 9:14pm
Interesting description of the event and understand the non-stabilized condition but in reality, I believe, because there was no contact between the two vehicles or the pedestrian by the second swerving vehicle, most officers would consider this two separate crashes but only relate them perhaps in the narrative to show causation.  I am a retired officer and that is how I would have handled it and that is how we taught our officers to handle it.  Had the second vehicle struck either the pedestrian too or the braking vehicle that first struck the pedestrian, it would have been one crash because of the non-stabilized condition.

Interesting though and not saying I am right, just how we would have and do handle it today.
Michael McDonald
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug/08/2016 at 9:18pm
I believe it would and should be counted provided the vehicle left the roadway/highway/trafficway prior to the immersion in water either by contact with another vehicle, object or out of control condition.
Michael McDonald
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug/08/2016 at 9:22pm
That is because, a motorist can brake forcefully and suddenly causing an unbelted occupant to strike the dashboard or windshield and that is a motor vehicle in transport collision, first harmful event injury.  No contact occurred between another vehicle or object so don't think the inclusion of "contact" is a mandatory component of a motor vehicle crash.
Michael McDonald
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug/08/2016 at 9:23pm
Agreed Joan.
Michael McDonald
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